September 20, 2006

  • Well, I spent most of my blogging time yesterday reading the very interesting thread on birth control Becky's blog. It made me think about having six kids and people's reaction to our family size.

    Though we do get an occasoinal withering glance from a bitter older woman, most people react fairly positively to our family. We often get kudos for having these kids as if we were some kind of heroes. Now, don't get me wrong, I like the encouragement, but I don't really feel like I'm doing anything that extraordinary. Yes, by our culture's standards we have an extremely large family, but really, in the greater scheme of things, we're just average.

    I mean, the Amish, who are as close to a non-birth control using population as there is, have an average of 6.7 children per woman. In the late 18th century in New England the birth rate was about the same, and in Virginia it was higher, over 8 children per woman on average (mostly due to higher infant mortality.) These women ran households without electricity and appliances. They made their own clothes, food, soap, and so on. I can purchase all these necessities, and a number of luxuries, like dark chocolate, as well.

    And, while having six kids is generally busy, it's not really all that much work. Really we have two adults, two almost-adults, two very competent kids, and only two who are still more liability than asset. The amount of work increases, but not more than the number of helpers.

    I have to wonder what people are making a fuss about when they want to take reproductive matters into their own hands. I mean, I can see arguments for spacing children, and for limiting them under certain conditions, but honestly, having six kids is really not that big of a deal. Maybe if more Christians could wrap their minds around that, they'd have more kids.

Comments (15)

  • i too have six kids..(all daughters)   i used a one year iud after my first caus i wanted to space my kids.   the next pregnancy was my twins.  (God's sense of humor)   sure they are spaced....by 15 minutes.   then we had two more.   after having five girls already, we decided that we would try the iud again.   but this time we will try the 10 year one since it had worked already.   after about 4 years i got pregnant with our 6th baby and the iud was still in place...(i kind of secretly wanted another one any ways) during my 2nd trimester the iud was taken out.   my youngest even has a very faded  L shape on her face.   that is the size and shape of the iud but only half of it.   what are the ages of your six?   mine are...18, the twins will be 15 in october, 13, 8 and 3.

  • I was very surprised that my little two-paragraph post generated so much discussion! I'm glad, though - it's a topic that not enough young Christian couples are talking about or even considering.

    I was reading on someone's blog...Amy's Humble Musings, maybe...about how children go from being dependent members of a family to independent, producing members of the family. Basically, as they get older, they contribute more and more to the family to where they become real assets. I think that happens more in agrarian societies, which may be why people in industrialized areas tend to have fewer children (it seems). But I think you could cause the same positive effect with a family business or something the children could be involved in.

  • I think that it really makes a difference when kids are responsible for what they can be responsible for. A lot of kids that Sean and I have been around don't do anything for themselves. Carrying their own dishes to the sink, putting laundry in the baset, etc. I get over whelmed by the chaos and then determine to never have any more kids. But then my little Riley is 23 months old and he takes his dishes to the sink, takes his clothes off and carries them to the laundry room, and cleans up his own toys. I guess I think that kids should earn freedoms by showing responsibilty. We live in Seattle and kids have everything and sometimes it's too much. Too many toys, too many clothes. I'm sure you know what I mean.

    I struggle with how much to train Riley to do on his own because my family was extremely disengaged. Everyone fended for themselves. I had a job outside the home by the time I was 9. My mom never read stories to me, didn't do my laundry, didn't make us meals, never helped me with my homework, and even when I had dance lessons my dad called a taxi to take me very week. I was Riley to be responsible, but I want him to feel secure and taken care of too.

    Nevertheless, I think kids by age 5 can be productive helpers and should be. It just seems like being a stay at home mom in our area is so much more "status" than an art or discipline or way or life. I've also seen moms who do everything for their kids to the point that by the time they leave for college their kids have never done laundry or cooked a meal on their own. I've heard the theory that "school" is their job. Can you imagine how many moms out there don't have life skills when they get married? I hardly spent anytime doing school when I was home schooled and I spent the majority of my time learning how to run a household. By all means, the latter experience has been far more rewarding and beneficial. Education is important, but education without life application is hardly worth it.

     Didn't Susanna Wesley have 25 children? I don't think she picked up their laundry from the floor and cut the crust off of every peanut butter and jelly sandwhich. I'm sure as the older kids got older they had responsibility for the younger. What a powerful example of a mother's influence over her children. I don't remember exactly, but Charles Wesley was one the last children she had.

    I'm not saying I will or won't have so many kids. I don't know what God's plan is for our family. We're open to whatever that is. I know that I appreciate the example of mother's like you who focus on being a spiritual influence every day for their children as they prepare them for life and ministry. It matters so much more who a child grows up to be than what they grow up to do.

    BTW, I also tried to comment on your recent post about discipline. Then I accidently deleted my comment. I didn't have time to rewrite it. I think people wait too long to begin disciplining their children. We started when Riley was 1 (in an age approriate manner) and we hardly have issues with him at all. We never child proofed our house and whenever we visit people they're usually pleased with his behavior. (So far!) I used to discipline him in some form almost every day when he was younger. Now that he's almost two, he typically responds well and corrections come made once or twice a wk. Our friends avoided discipline until their child was almost 3 and now they only spank in public when they're frustrated which is often.

    Sorry for the long reply...

    ~ Cat 

  • Six children is a smaller family then almost all of my aunts and uncles- most of whom are amish. My family is having our first ever family reunion in Nov. With 11 children,4 of us that are married, and my parents, we make a grand total of 21 people. It is amazing and when I was thinking about it the other day, I realized how boring a family reunion would be if mom and dad had stopped after my brother and I were born. It makes me want more children because like you said they go from being little dependants to being assets in lots of wonderful ways.

  • Just a couple of thoughts on the birth control topic. Over in the UK it is increasingly difficult for mothers to even afford to stay at home, let alone have many kids, given the terrible rise in housing prices (which were fueled in part by dual-income families in the first place!). I feel very blessed that we got our house when we did and we can afford to keep me at home schooling the kids. But I wonder, for families whose finances are unavoidably tight, is it acting in faith to go ahead and have lots of kids anyway (trusting that God will provide), or is it testing God (by having more kids when it doesn't seem that you have enough money to properly care for them)?

    I used to think any birth control was wrong, but now I believe it is right in certain circumstances (I'm not sure about the money issue), such as if it would put the health of the mother seriously at risk. At the moment we believe it would be very risky for me to have any more children, unless we find out that there is something which would prevent the post-natal depression from reoccurring. And I always wanted to have at least 6 kids!!! But I'm trying to be content and trust God... it helps to have the 3 most wonderful kids...!! :)

  • God's Word never changes and INCREASE is His plan in all cases.  Most of us are uneducated about our bodies and womb-health and we're being bombarded with toxins daily in the environment, but the Lord is still our provider and we are to walk by faith, not sight.  Progesterone cream, cod liver oil, butter, oil, raw milk, organic produce, healthy grass finished meats, prayer, and taking all thoughts captive to Christ bring forth LIFE.  

    I wasn't taught to manage a home, and that has been my biggest struggle as a mom, but with all the wonderful encouraging books in the homeschooling community, I feel I've made great strides.  My best child rearing tip is to let your yes be yes and your no be no.    This was one of my biggest mistakes in parenting with my oldest two, so they thought everything was debatable.

    Carrie

    ps to Mary:  did you save your placenta, dry it, and eat it?  I know one mom of many who did this and it worked.  I've also been told that progesterone cream will prevent both post partem depression and PMS, but diet plays an extreme part as sugar is a major depressant and people generally go for sugar to pick them up -- The Sugar Blues.  I can't have corn syrup without having a major mood swing.

  • i've been thinking about your post all day, so when i get a chance, i'll actually write something!

    my mom says it worked for her, so it should be working now. let me know if it doesn't. i'm trying to get it set up so the whole family and everyone else can see the baby

  • i think its God's decision how many children each woman has...period! life's circumstances are radically different for everyone and i'd never judge anyone for their personal choices (for the most part anyway), but the Lord is our Creator and He already knows us before we enter our mother's wombs. it is His timing when we enter this great big world! i wish i had had more children, i'd give anything to have had more!!! we have 5 but i would love an increase!

  • Stopping by to say Hello! Hope all is well with you and your family. Have a great weekend!

  • Yes, I did get bangs today. I really like them a lot.

    I'm very, very thankful for the joys of being raised in a large family. I wouldn't trade it for anything, though I know that it has not been easy for my parents. They have had little to no support... and their harshest critics have been family members and--gasp-- church members! What a shame!

  • Carrie,

    I just read your comment! I would be VERY grateful for any advice, as I am doing all I can to get better and have made great strides. I am eating no sugar (except a tiny bit of maple syrup in plain bio yogurt once a day), no white products (except a tiny bit of potatoes for dinner), and just a slice of homemade spelt bread a day. I eat some organic foods & am hoping to get access to raw milk soon.

    It would be a tremendous answer to prayer if I were able to have more children. My depression after my third child (after moderate depression after my second, which was cured by eliminating sugars and most grains and processed foods) was so bad that I nearly broke the 6th commandment - and I am a Christian! I believe that God's command to increase is only tempered by other commands, such as do not kill. Unless I find that I would not get so bad (or even worse!) with another child, I believe that it would be wrong to get pregnant again. I'm doing tons of research in the hopes that I might find things to keep it from happening again (or at least not nearly so bad!).

    I have tried progesterone cream; it helped my mood somewhat but the biggest difference was altering my diet as much as I could. I'm trying to find a good source of cod liver oil. Btw, I live in the UK (though grew up in US), so some things aren't as easy to get here. Where do you live?

    I believe we are to walk by faith, not sight; but in my case, I believe that it would be more on the level of tempting God and possibly breaking His law. I was completely NOT myself!

    That's interesting about the placenta. I'll have to investigate that angle.

    Thanks for your thoughts! God bless!

    Mary

  • Hi there-

    I have to say, since joining these blogrings, I have been taken aback by the debate over birth control/non birth control, etc. I guess my take has always been if you want lots of kids, awesome, have them, if not, dont- and who am I to judge either way?

    My fiance and I have had this discussion and we wish to adopt non-infants, children who have been given up for adoption and are being bounced around in the foster care system. We would also like to have a child or two ' naturally', but I feel no calling to give birth to lots of children, when we feel our calling is to take in the children that nobody else wants. Now, this is just our plan- for us- our family- what God is calling us to, and I would never think to tell another family that they are wrong or should be doing things the way I do. Yet I see a lot of that..and I dont know why.

    I guess I'm just confused..why do people care so much about telling others what they should do?

    Slightly Perplexed,

    Kassie

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